Both partners were polite but I'd say that John was a little more soft-spoken than Jeff. He sometimes gave yes or no answers and when I raised my voice he'd say, "Sorry" (which surprised me).
But, as you'll see when you listen (mixed metaphor), he delivered detailed descriptions of how he works as a recruiter -- which is what we want.
Now, the problems. There were no technical problems for once but I woke up at 3 a.m. the day of the show and couldn't get back to sleep so I was a bit dozy and a couple of times I got lost in the lead-up to the question and forgot what I was asking.
And, when I listened to the show, I could see that I cut him off more than I should have. Now, I believe in cutting guests off before they get boring but I made some mistakes this time around which I tried to correct when I edited the clips.
I could also see when I listened that I was gun-shy about my questions. When Jeff was on the week before I asked great questions but the mob didn't like them so, this time, I was too quick to say "Maybe this isn't a good question. Maybe we should move on." That was foolish.
Also participating were Alejandro Guzman, Mike Cox and Jeremy Roberts. Jerry wasn't there so Mike Cox tried to hassle me about the questions and Alex tried to talk over me to compensate for his absence.
To copy a file, right click on the player, then on Copy Link Location
Technically, things got off to a bad start. I called in on Skype with a headset but when the show started I couldn't hear anything so I had to call back in on BlogTalkRadio's Direct Connect option.
When I listened to the recording I could tell that Direct Connect is not that good. The sound was fuzzy and the volume varied but I was just happy to be there and we had a very good time. At least, I did and the people on Twitter seemed to, as well.
Amy likes to talk about salary negotiations so we spent a lot of time talking about that and, as you will see, we had a little difference of opinion.
We covered a lot of other territory, as well, and my intro was about the way war photographers react to dangerous situations.
To copy an audio file, just right click the player then click on Copy Link Location.
A few weeks ago, Daniel Chait told us that while the golden rules of recruiting are very well known, lots of companies don't use them.
As a result, interviewers are unprepared. They miss important questions and don't take notes so when they arrive at the selection meetings they have only a foggy memory of what was said.
Honeit tries to solve these problems by having you conduct the interview via their website. It hosts the interview questions and records the interview. This way, interviewers know what to ask and they have a record of what was said.
If the candidate has to go through a number of interviews staggered over a few days or weeks, subsequent interviewers can listen to the previous recordings and, then, hone in on the issues that remain unresolved.
A key feature, here, is the clip-making function.
Before asking about an important topic, the interviewer can press a button to start recording that part of the conversation as a separate clip. When the topic ends, she presses another button to end the clip.
When these short clips are available and their topics labelled, the next interviewer will not have to wade through an entire recording, including chit-chat, to get to the material that concerns her the most.
There is even a chance that she might not have to conduct another interview at all and this is the way, Nick claims, Honeit can speed up the interviewing process.
He is targeting both third party recruiters and corporate recruiting departments and you can try it for free at Honeit.com. (The video feature only works with the premium account).
Before founding a start-up, Nick was a headhunter and a corporate recruiter (at MTV and TubeMogul) so we also discussed a lot of plain old recruiting topics -- though Alejandro complained about that (and Maureen supported him). The song was terrible. Pathetic is a better word. My intro was stilted for some reason. I seemed sort of confused (and I was). And Jerry wasn't around so there was no aftershow.
Proven best practices have existed for decades. There are hundreds of books, newsletters and articles that explain them. But most companies don't follow them.
Chait's partner, Jon Stross, told William Tincup that there might be good recruiters inside a company but that makes no difference.
The bad habits are so entrenched that they can't get the staff they are working with to do the right things.
People come into interviews clueless and do such a lousy job at screening that good candidates wouldn't want to work there even if they got a offer.
Then they don't report their post-interview opinions promptly.
To solve this problem, Chait and Stross, who have a lot of experience in hiring, created an ATS that is more than an ATS.
It spoon-feeds managers with all the info they need to do the right thing all the way through the hiring process.
And, if the people who need help resist it, the software compares their results to people who are doing things right.
This public exposure will be a lever that frustrated corporate recruiters can use to launch a revolution in hiring in backward companies
Hiring is handled so poorly in most companies that it doesn't take much to stand out. "If you move candidates through the process quickly and give them a good idea why they'd want to work with you, you are differentiating yourself," Stross claims.
When a candidate comes into a company she often has to pass through many meetings with a number of different people. The problem is, not all of these interviewers are prepared..
Because the interview is inefficient people are brought back again and again and repeatedly asked the questions they've already answered. And candidates hate that.
The number one factor in a good interview process is Structured Interviewing. That means every candidate goes through the same process. That gives you an apples to apples comparison of given candidates.
It also means that if I ask you the steps in your interview process you should be able to tell me.
Also, every interview must have a clear purpose. You know that there is something specific you have to determine about this candidate.
CREATING A PROFILE
The first thing you have to do is write down what kind of person you want. You break the profile into 3 categories.
First, you can define a job in terms of skills.
The skills a sales person needs are an ability to play golf, cold call, write a power point and give a presentation.
A programmer needs to be able to write code, understand requirements, do a unit test, talk to customers, have experience with specific programming languages.
I don't think in terms of X number of years of experience just what they need to know how to do.
Half of the process should be about Personality Traits. You want to clarify their motivations. Why they want the job. If they fit with the team and company culture.
QUALIFICATIONS AND DETAILS
Third are Qualifications and Other Details. Like Education.
STAGES OF THE PROCESS
Then you define the stages of the process. For instance, you might have 4 interviews that you do on the phone and a take-out test. You have to know that you are going to do X number of interviews then make a decision.
For each stage you write an interview.
How do you determine if the candidate has the skills you need? Always test for skills. That's the only way to know.
Early on you can give them an easy multiple choice test and then a more complex test when you are really interested.
Make a developer program during the interview. They might be able to answer questions but can't make stuff so you have to check it.
For Personality traits use behavioural interviews. How someone acted in the past is the best predictor of future behaviour.
For instance, the ability to handle a difficult customer.
You don't ask a general question like "How do you do X?" I want to know what you've done. So I say:
"Tell me about a time when you handled a difficult customer." Then follow through with detailed, probing skeptical questions.
"Why did you handle it that way. Is that the normal way you handle things. How did they react. Why did they react so positively. Did it solve their problem?"
If you put 10 people through that same question, you'll be shocked by the range of answers you'll get. You really can uncover the true nature of how they act.
Check references to test personality.
You ask the candidate "When I call your references what are they going to tell me are your strengths and weaknesses?"
Now I have permission to call that reference up and say,
"Bob is a great guy. He told me that sometimes he has problems with long hours. Did you ever experience that?"
That's better than "Do you like Bob?".
"Would you say that Bob is more motivated by learning new technology or by shipping features?"
GETTING QUALIFICATIONS AND DETAILS
For the details just create a checklist on your website as part of the application process. Then verify them.
KNOWING YOUR PROCESS
Once you put a process like this in place, you can say,
"We are looking for these skills and personality traits.
"We are going to do a pre-screen. We're going to read the resume. We're going to do a 15 minute call."
"We're going to do an hour long phone interview. We're going to bring him in for 3 interviews and be done."
"And for each of these interviews we're going to write questions for each of the skills to make sure that they are well covered so that once we are finished we know a lot about all of these things."
If I do this I will have a lot of data that I can rely on and trust. And all the way through I can tell the candidate what is next.
I check salary in the first call to see if it is within range.
I tell them "I want to let you know that the budget for this role is around 80K plus or minus depending on experience.
"I don't need you to answer. I'm not trying to negotiate. I'm just trying to let you know so that we are in the same ball park and it's worth both our time."
SELLING YOUR COMPANY
You should be talking about your company all the way through the interview. When you talk about motivations that's a great place to start selling a company.
Some people just want to program they don't want a career path to management. You have to know that.
When it comes to closing you say, "You said it was important to do X and Y. Here's what we offer in this position."
HIRING WITHOUT EXPERIENCE
How do you test for skills you don't have? Use an outside expert.
For instance, use your network to find someone who has been a proven head of sales in a company like yours. You can give him clear instructions to test specific things.
She was the guest on The Recruiting Animal Show on June 10, 2015.
From my experience of her on Twitter I expected her to be a bit feisty but she turned out to be a proper English lady -- with a school-marmish hate-on for contingent recruiting and contingent recruiters, at least, of the English variety.
Thayer says that her company only places the best, top level people that and she has never had to go out looking for business. It comes to her via referrals.
She likes to give free and sincere career advice and believes that if you focus on taking care of the candidate it will benefit your clients much more than if you focus on them.
She thinks that for the sake of diversity hiring managers should not look to their personal networks for their hiring needs but place ads that will bring in people they don't already know.
I found Thayer's description of the IT networking parties she threw very early in her career particularly interesting.
There is also a discussion of the relation between advice, persuasion and selling.
My introduction is about phone fear due to extreme negative predictions but it could have used a rewrite.
Thayer did sing but not very well. You can barely hear her.
It's funny by the way -- and ironic when you consider that Danny criticizes me during the show for saying that hiring managers are blockheads.
So, anyway, Greenhouse software tells these blockheads - just joking - what they have to do at every step in the recruiting process.
It also tracks the results of various strategies so that the user can compare them and figure out what works best.
Daniel is a great speaker. There are many good videos of him online. In this one, he outlines a "killer" interview process. And this is a good follow up. In fact, if you watch those you don't have to listen to his appearance on The Recruiting Animal Show. But you can if you like.
Did Daniel enjoy his time on the show? On Twitter, he said it was fun in it's own way - which, to me, means no. But, hey, that's show biz. I listened to a bunch his interviews and no one pressed him to justify his ideas. Not that we did that much either. In fact, I'm sorry that Jerry had to leave early because he was very lively in the first part of the show.
Daniel's view of the corporate recruiting function was confirmed by Michael Cox who is the Director of Recruiting at a 500 person company. Alejandro helped out with the interview and Maureen Sharib, as usual, was the only caller with the guts to participate in the song.